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I do not believe in balancing classes by making every class do the same amount of damage nor be capable of doing everything perfectly well as each

Creating Class Niches- Example of how to balance TR vs Pirate

Saying that pirate sucks at what he does compared to tomb raiser is better when you have numbers to back that up.


I do not believe in balancing classes by making every class do the same amount of damage nor be capable of doing everything perfectly well as each. That is to say, a shadow hunter not being able to solo well should be a given (albeit not as difficult as in the current state), but should not be capable of doing as well as a tomb raiser or pirate.


However, I strongly believe that every class should have a niche, in that they are successful at one thing more so than any other class, be it crowd clearing, crowd controlling, indirect utility damage, utility through heals, buffs or any other sort of team-changing mechanic.


With that, I will now commit to doing class-by-class analysis, drawing comparisons and where the fault lies in each class. I play every class with gear above U5 (36+) EXCEPT Neon Ninja, Candy Barbarian, Knight, and Gunslinger - but I have adequate knowledge of them and have tried them on my friend's accounts to know their capabilities.


I will start with TR and PC because I feel these two have the most overlap in terms of utility while one is significantly stronger than the other.


The other "niche" comparisons I will eventually do are:


KNIGHT vs DRACOLYTE (Heavy Tank vs Damage Tank)


CANDY BARB vs BOOMERANGER (Utility Tank vs Utility Damage)




NEON NINJA vs SHADOW HUNTER (This is an awkward comparison, but main due to the nature of their two spammable paralyse abilities and the fragile/burst damage nature of both classes, they are actually much more in common than with the others.)


LUNAR LANCER is currently just strange design in general - most of the problems with him have already been pointed out on these forums.


(I feel ice sage is balanced well and fulfills a good niche <AOE damage + stun + team DPS boost> offering good damage, survivability, and utility for the team)




It doesn't need to be said much that tomb raiser is the jack of all trades in the game right now, maybe even too much so. Nevertheless, many nerfs I've read (or lack thereof, since most people justify by saying a PVE game needs no balancing) are also either too little or too much.


My personal take on the TR is that he's too easy to play because his kit is overly self-sustaining.


a. He does not need to use attack speed in his stats.

This makes his gear straightforward: build him as a tanky frontline fighting alongside and healing his minions.


b. He has a zero cooldown mega skill - banshee mode.

Near-invulnerability on uptime higher than that of the knight that also increases his attack range, his attack damage, his heal amount, sustained by mana (a potentially infinite resource) on top of rendering his minions invulnerable to even their only weakness (poison and numerous damage sources). This skill is what breaks him and makes him pretty much too powerful.


c. He has innate regeneration (fixed numbers) from the number of enemies he is hitting - "lifesteal" if you wish to call it.

This makes him very sustainable as he does not need to rely on getting out of a fight to regenerate, nor potions or health regen on his gear. This may seem minor, but for a class that already has so many positives, it is very significant - most other classes have to sacrifice regeneration in return for damage, health or mobility. Tomb can just go mobility AND still have this regeneration, because of factor (a).


d. He has incredible (along the lines of crazy) maximum damage output.

A result of banshee mode + minions + goliath all together, he plays with little risk, little reliance on potions, while having a massive max damage output and capability to solo in almost any situation. Even without minions, he can clear huge mob waves with arcane emblem at only slightly slower than other classes.


e. His minions ALL have taunt.

That means he is almost never taking damage, on top of how his kit actually allows him to be close to invulnerable whilst having high health. regeneration


Lets draw a comparison here to the pirate captain, the closest possible class in terms of niche "summoning" type.


a. Pirates also have no need for one stat (energy regen),

b. They also have summoning skills (one normal and one AOE turret),

c. They have a taunt (an exploding decoy),

d. And are innately tanky because they do not need energy regeneration on their gear and can thus build to tank.


However, almost every single one of the pirate's kit is inferior to that of the tomb raiser except for the fact his secondary damage sources are invulnerable and not targettable - directing damage to the pirate, who does not have the innate regeneration like tomb raiser does.


One can argue that the tomb raiser is better at single target warfare as his minions damage is spread out and has to focus down one target, but clearly this is not true - if you've tried both (prime example being in sky realms to fight 3+ titans at one go) tomb raiser EXCELS in every way at destroying groups of enemies, primarily due to banshee mode and goliath's AOE slam. Pirate on the other hand has a very low uptime cannon with low attack speed, and a turret that does damage to a single target. His AOE attack is inferior to tomb raiser's banshee mode primary in every way as well, and decoy explosion damage is mediocre and almost negligible.


The ONLY, and EXCESSIVE weakness of the tomb raiser is that poison or any sort of heavy DOT will destroy minions in seconds. Even then, with potions and a zealous emblem, TR can still keep minions alive, or at least he won't ever be anywhere close to risking death with his banshee kit and normal attack.


In my opinion, either one of these two summoners NEEDS to be better at the other in one of the following areas for them to be used at an equal level:



Area Damage ( Crowd Clearing )

Ability to take away damage from teammates (taunting via minions)

Maximum Damage Output : Burst Damage Output ratio

Sustainability of minions


At the moment the ratings look like this on a scale of 5:

Tomb Raiser : Pirate

5 : 2

4 : 2

4 : 2

5 : 3

3 : 4



26 : 13


That's ridiculous and clearly shouldn't be the case.


There's numerous ways to create a niche for either class, done by removing some of the benefits tomb raiser has or tweaking both classes to excel at something.


My proposal:


Make pirate captain excel at sustained damage at low risk with no regeneration, and tomb raiser excel at burst damage at high risk with high regeneration.


Tomb Raiser

- Instead of souls being granted on kills, souls now have a max cap of five, and regenerate only over time (5 seconds instead of current 8 seconds).

- Minions no longer regenerate health from the tomb raiser's primary, and instead of losing health passively, their every hit will steal health and mana for the tomb raiser.

- Tomb Raiser's primary attack will now heal for a decent fixed amount, no longer multiplied by the number of targets he is hitting.

- In banshee mode, the lifesteal amount increases signfiicantly but now grants only 50% reduced damage instead of 95%.

- Banshee mode will reduce the damage taken by minions and goliath in the radius by 50%.

- Goliath will now summon a golem based on the number of souls currently held by the Tomb Raiser, and will use up all soul charges. He loses health as per before.

(As there are no minions to steal mana for the tomb raiser when max goliath is used, the tomb raiser will inevitably have less uptime on Banshee mode and will have less survivability himself while the golem is up.)

- Goliaths will return full soul charges if it dies, but will go on cooldown for 20 seconds

- Resummons of Goliath will replace existing goliath with full hp (but of the soul level used) - cooldown will not proc

- Minions CAN exist at the same time as Goliath (but using the minions means that your goliath will eventually die and leave you only with minions)



- Shift decoys to the right mouse button (Quality of life change :P)

- Pirate cone attack range is now double the current range. (Decoy toss range remains the same)

- Put the primary turret on a 25 second cooldown lasting 40 seconds

- Cooldown of MOW reduced but there can only be a maximum of one Man of War. (like how turret was like before)

- Doubloons will upgrade the turret as per before, and once maximum doubloons is achieved, any collected doubloons will decrease the cooldown of the turret by one (maximum of 3 spawn per pirate attack).

- A new turret will not replace the current turret, but instead also be upgradeable by doubloons.

-Decoys no longer deal block damage on explosion and have a bigger taunt radius. (Provides indirect survivability on top of the increased attack range suggested earlier.)


- Classes should be good at one thing over the other, especially their closest comparisons (in this thread, TR vs Pirate)

- TR currently beats the **** out of his Pirate counterpart (as well as most other classes in soloing)


Many ways to make a class good at one thing, but my recommendation is to make

TOMB RAISER a HIGH RISK, HIGH REGENERATION, HIGH BURST class (with the ability to immediately attain maximum damage)



Done by the following changes:


Tomb Raiser

Soul Cap Removed and reduced to 5

Minions no longer lose health but are no longer healed by primary

Minions regenerate mana and health on hit for the TR

Banshee mode now reduces damage taken by the Tomb Raiser, minions and goliaths by 50%

Goliath now uses SOUL CHARGES to summon instead of existing minions, and go on cooldown once dead

Primary and Banshee healthsteal now changed to %maxhealth and do not take into account number of enemies

Intended damage changes should reflect minions being better at dealing damage to bosses and goliaths for poison/groups/tanking


Pirate Captain

Attack Range doubled

Decoy remains the same

Man of War has 100% uptime (current turret)

Turret now has a 25s cooldown but 25-40s uptime (to be balanced)

Turret is upgradeable as per before, when maximum upgrades doubloons collected lower the turret CD.

Multiple Turrets can Exist


Made some edits, primarily to make more logic out of my suggested TR changes.


For those who do not understand:


- A maxed goliath can now be immediately summoned, using all existing soul charges

- You may use subsequent recharges to summon minions or hold them to re-summon the goliath before the goliath dies

- Goliath dying will put him on cooldown for a period of time, leaving you with only minions

- TR may summon minions instead of the goliath. Minions heal and grant mana to the TR on hit, and have better single target damage compared to instant summon of a goliath.

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